The Future of Steepster

To all who view Adagio Teas as the Death Star, I advise patience. You’ll soon see how we actually act and have a chance to compare our actions with the version described here based on hearsay and rumors. For the record, Chip was neither banned nor fired, and while you may dislike Andrew’s posts, to insist that he acted unethically without direct knowledge of the events is both irresponsible and un-American. I’m hoping that we’re all in agreement on the presumption of innocence and will not jump to conclusions based on incomplete information, hearsay, rumors or fear-mongering. There’s more than enough of this on TV. Let’s not pollute our tea forums with the same.

Michael – Respectfully, I’m not sure what being an American has to do with this site or our opinions. Keep in mind that not all Steepster users live in the United States or even in the Americas as a whole. There are people here from all over the globe. Speaking as a US citizen, being “un-American” isn’t exactly a bad thing (especially in light of current events). Change occurs when you confront the status quo, and I think that’s what this discussion thread is doing. This site has been managed by its members for quite some time while the creators have been absent. This week’s announcement is the first we’ve seen of them (and apparently the last), only to tell us that within a few short days Steepster will be sold to a large tea company with an obvious bias. And this without anyone first asking how we might feel about the matter, those of us who have actually been here. Of course we have opinions on how it should continue. If there has been controversy surrounding Adagio in the past, I think it is fair for us to discuss as a group how that might impact our community. That doesn’t mean we can’t also be hopeful for better things.

It’s obvious our comments have upset you, but please remember that we have lived years of our lives here as a community. We are very protective of this space and of our Steepster family. We want this site to thrive and we’re trying to ensure that happens when we share our suggestions and ideas with you. But we also have opinions and worries, and we should be able to speak them freely in this space without “new management” becoming offended and/or defensive.

posting this from a new account because I haven’t been able to successfully submit a reply with my normal admin account

I just wanted to jump in to try and help calm things down. Regardless of what the situation is, Steepster has always tried to maintain calm and reasonable conversations in the discussion thread. I think Shae just did this really well, acknowledging the feelings that can get pulled into the conversation, especially when discussing criticisms of our passions and professional efforts, while also noting that we should be open to reasonable conversation.

We took the decision of who to hand off Steepster to very seriously and remain confident Adagio not only has the capability to make things great, but also maintain the true essence of Steepster’s community and tea database. I hope everyone can work together, as amicably as possible, to move toward that future where Mike and I have failed. It won’t be easy, but I know if anyone can do it, it’s the Steepster Community + the folks from Adagio.

I’m subscribed to this thread so have seen all the ideas people have been posting. I think those suggestions are great and I know Michael appreciates the input. As long as we stay focused on those I think this will give Michael and his team a bunch of stuff to work on!

Thank you, Jason, for your reply. I had been wondering why we haven’t heard from you after your original post and am glad to know it was only a technical issue and that you’ve been following the discussion. Your absence has been noticed on the site, but I certainly wouldn’t say that you have failed here – this is an amazing community that I personally appreciate and love very deeply. I’m grateful to you and the other founders for creating it. I think that’s why we are all so passionate with our varied responses to this news. This is a special place for many of us. I hope Adagio considers our suggestions and works with us to make sure Steepster is accessible for all who wish to be a part of this inclusive space.

Just want to say that the fact Jason reply with his own admin account speaks VOLUMES to how important it is to fix the 503 errors/glitches preventing logging in and posting ASAP…

YES. Because I think some people have been able to start a discussion, but then not even reply within their own discussion after the first post? And I guess that goes all the way to the top, as I’m pretty sure Jason hasn’t even tried replying within a discussion for a good long while, so this might be him encountering this problem himself for the first time, probably since the issue started for many people?

As a Danish citizen born and bred, I am insanely proud to be ‘un-American’, thank you very much…

+1000 to what Roswell Strange said! And like tea-sipper mentioned, the issue does seem to be responding within threads. I didn’t have an issue creating discussions but haven’t been able to consistently reply for many years (I try to post and the button says “Posting…” but just sits there doing nothing for ages). I even tried logging into Mike’s admin account, thinking that because he had less activity, followers, notes, etc it would be more likely to go through, but no luck. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we are admins, since it seems other people are able to comment regularly. I’m ashamed it just took me so long to think of creating a new account :(.

Anyways FWIW, even though I haven’t posted frequently I do keep up with a lot of the threads since I’m subscribed and get the email notifications. That’s one of the main ways I try to clear spam because I can still do that from people’s profile page. So I’ve effectively lurked for a long time but not been able to engage—I look forward to being able to do that better in the future as a regular member!

And Shae, thanks for the kinda words. It’s heartwarming to see people still use Steepster and get joy out of it despite all of the technical issues. Once Michael and the team are able to resolve a lot of those, I think the sky is the limit!

^ yay! My 2nd reply! It’s working!

Jason I just want to say, because I don’t think I have publicly yet, that I am truly appreciative of all you and Mike have done for Steepster. I found it at one of the darkest periods in my life and it has been a rock for me ever since. I also personally credit Steepster with being the reason that, in addition to leading to a deeper and richer love of tea that has shaped me in so many ways as a person, is the reason I even have the career now that I do. So thank you for that! I’ve used some harsher words in this discussion thread relating to site support, and I do stand by them, but I also know that you are a person with your own feelings and life priorities, so wanted to make it very clear that I am also not thankless for the many years of support that you did provide, the community you founded, and the fact you didn’t give up on it.

And unrelated – it has always bugged me that there doesn’t seem to be any consistency to who is and isn’t affected by the glitches. For a while I thought that maybe it was only new accounts, but this is obviously not the case. Then I thought perhaps it was only old accounts? Also, clearly, not true. It also seems to affect both people with LOTS of tasting notes/history on the site and people with very little.

I know for me personally, I have never had issues with logging in, updating my profile, posting on the discussion board, or many of the other consistent glitches. I am so grateful for that. It’s just so irritating that there isn’t really a pattern to it.

Yeah, I might have been a tea fan without Steepster, but because of Steepster I became a tea addict every single day and I joined back in November 2009. Steepster has been amazing, so thank you again Jason and Mike!

I also have not had log-in, updating profile or discussion board issues, so I have considered myself one of the lucky ones. Messages have had many 503 errors however, but they eventually get through.

That’s very nice of you to say, Roswell Strange ❤️. It makes me ecstatic that Steepster has been able to play such a positive roll in your life. But I’ll re-iterate what I truly believe, any success Steepster has is due to the amazing community and people like you! To use a gushy metaphor, Steepster may provide the roof, walls, and floors to make a house, but it is you all who truly make it a home. Without you all and your contributions, it would be an empty platform.

As for the inconsistency of issues, that has been a pain in the a— for us for years! Even though I’m not an engineer, I’ve been working in tech for over a decade and it’s frustrating to not even be able to guess at the pattern for the issues. Either way, Michael has a good team that I’m sure will be able to resolve them. Cheers!

Jason, you guys didn’t fail. We can all get busy with life sometimes but you guys started a unique community that has given loads to all of us. I have seen the ups and downs here but 8 years later I am still here because of what you guys got together and put us tea heads together. Lots of us are tight knit on here in a way that couldn’t have been done without this site to put us together.

Not gonna lie, I did snort at the irony of the 503 error taking out our Admin too.

Jason, the fact that you guys are willing to look for people to take over the site is proof enough that you haven’t failed and are still working hard for what’s best for Steepster. It’s been on a slow downward spiral for a while, and you could have let it crash and fade away, but didn’t. Us being critical of Adagio doesn’t change that, and I will not stop being critical of Adagio. I want good things, and I want to hope they’ll provide them.

I’d also like to second Roswell because Steepster shaped me in a similar way. I found it when I was first drinking more tea. Having a place to log my experiences spurred me to look for teashops—where I found Murchie’s, well over a decade ago. And now that’s my career. Funny, that.

This really rubbed me the wrong way, honestly.

Hi Michael,
We have not spoken before, I’m an old time Steepster, TeaChat member, and co-founder of TeaForum. I think for the sake of Steepster’s future and success, past mistakes need to be clarified and learned from. It is possible you were not directly involved in the mass deletion of thousands of TeaChat posts, that represented thousands of member hours sharing tea knowledge, but this did in fact occur. These posts were not part of any secret chats or “members only” area, they were organized group tastings, and what your staff called ‘older posts’. Chip was in fact removed as admin/moderator after having selflessly made TeaChat a great place for over 12 years. The mass deletions, and Chip’s removal as admin/mod was done by your staff managers. These ‘staff managers’ were in the end like a revolving door, with a new staff member taking over each time, and disrupting what had been otherwise a great place to share.

We were told that over a two year period each time the site was updated Adagio lost/deleted posts, and that we shouldn’t be worried since they were ‘old posts’. These sadly were many thousands of important historical posts. Then Adagio increasingly moved the site toward promoting Adagio, something it had not done in the past. At this time Adagio staff started deleting current content and ongoing discussions. Basically, we all lost confidence in the site and went on to create TeaForum. As you know it takes some time to post, take pictures and share, so knowing posts might get deleted ruined what had been a great community. After this many longtime TeaChat members, including myself were blocked from posting on TeaChat.

As a few Steepster members have recommended here, Steepster should be run and moderated by member appointed admin/mods. Also, I think Adagio should post clearly for all to see an ‘Operating Agreement’ stating Adagio’s relationship to Steepster, that they will not delete past site content, and that Adagio will not censor content on the site. I look forward to seeing Steepster thrive. Hope this helps.

Victoria, I am sorry to hear that you’re unable to post on TeaChat. However, I’m not seeing any impediments, and your nearly ten-thousand posts are still there, for all to see.

I do not moderate TeaChat, and was taken aback by the suggestions that my colleagues may have shown bias in their posts or edits. I found much evidence to the contrary. TeaChat is filled with references to other vendor’s products and website, neither of them filtered or removed.

Here’s an example of a post from 2009 in which you recommend TeaSource: https://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8038

We’ve kept it alive for over ten years, and have no plans to ever delete it. I’m not sure where the belief that TeaChat is intolerant of dissenting views originated, but the preponderance of evidence to the contrary is there for all to see.

Once again, I reiterate a commitment to preserve historical posts and not censor any future ones. For evidence of this, please review product reviews on Adagio or TeaChat. You’ll see plenty of critical (almost scathing) examples. We’d never think to edit them for they offer credence and credibility to the much larger body of positive reviews.

To diehard conspirators, who do not believe a word of what appears on websites that we manage, I offer the reviews posted on Google: https://www.google.com/shopping/customerreviews/merchantreviews?q=adagio.com

Do you have suggestions for how Steepster may be improved that have not been enumerated yet? I look forward to seeing your recommendations and enacting them soon. Thanks in advance!

Victoria, thank you for sharing your TeaChat handle! Please confirm that you’re unable to post or PM other members. I’m not seeing anything in your settings that would account for this, and this is not an issue that had been reported earlier. Please do share details. My email address is Michael at Adagio.

TeaChat is nearly 20 years old, and had indeed gone through platform migrations and technical upgrades. However, any removal of material would have occurred due to anachronism and lack of relevancy, not as acts of censorship. We have never filtered any customer reviews or board posts. I assure you that this is not about to change.

My membership statues was changed to “Newley Registered User” by your staff, after thousands of posts on TC (& many deleted posts), so no I cannot just post without admin approval, or pm/email members. I do not think you personally were involved in any deletions, since it appears you were delegating to staff. That same revolving door staff removed Chip suddenly as moderator after 12 years of service to TC, because he was so concerned about en masse deletions. The point here is to learn something from this, so it is not repeated.

This is really strange as your account shows a registration date of November 2012, which wouldn’t be the case if your account was indeed reset or updated. Do you still use an email address of o…….3@gmail? I’ll gladly assist you in troubleshooting the issue.

Nothing strange, Adagio staff made many TC members who were active contributors over many years, ‘New Members’ so they could control our comments and interactions with other members. They also deleted whole threads, with comments regarding our concerns over delete threads. Honestly, given that you seem not to be aware of these occurrences, the best strategy forward is to have a clear and transparent Operating Agreement with Steepster members, that you can all agree on, and move forward with in your new venture together. Steepster is a close knit community and a useful resource, I look forward to seeing it succeed and flourish.

Seeing how no amount of contrary evidence will dispel the TC conspiracy theory, I will gladly compose and post the principles that have guided our approach to product reviews and information exchange on any property affiliated with Adagio Teas, including TeaChat, TeaMap, TeaMuse, TeaChef, and TeaCritic. We had never practiced censorship and never will. I’ll gladly expand on this simple sentence if it may help us focus energies on the more worthy goal of identifying and correcting the technical glitches that are preventing Steepster from being a more attractive venue for tea discourse.

Thank you Victoria.

I’d be very careful when speaking of evidence… a number of members of Teachat at the time have been taking screenshots of threads that were later deleted, which are clear evidence to the contrary. The owner of the forum just saying something is not evidence…

Questionable is as well that the “Tea of the day” threads, that were obviously created to inspire some life in the dying forum, have all raving reviews from members that were created in a matter of days from each other… some profile pictures even looking like they come from the same image bank as the new marketing person :) People are not stupid.

I will gladly compose and post the principles that have guided our approach to product reviews and information exchange on any property affiliated with Adagio Teas, including TeaChat, TeaMap, TeaMuse, TeaChef, and TeaCritic.

While I think this is a good start, I think there’s probably a few things to address. Teachat’s TOS is shockingly… Short, compared to Steepster’s. I think people would feel more comfortable continuing under Steepster’s, or, if we’re to be governed by a new TOS, it be written specifically FOR Steepster and not Adagio (conglomerate) as a whole’s.

But these are just thoughts.

Those of us with moderator powers SEEM to be able to deal with outdated/broken images. At least, I noticed that I suddenly gained that ability. I’ve been deleting broken images and reuploading (it’s now my policy never to ‘link’ and always to save then upload from my computer) where I find them.

I do LIKE the “buying” part, HOWEVER. I think more effort needs to be put into “handing over” editing-powers to companies. So far, the only two companies I ever saw who were given access were Butiki and Andrew & Dunhams. Allowed them to add the buy links, as well as add an image to their Company Profile, which is a nice touch.

Sadly, what I mentioned above(suspiciously fake looking users writing positive reviews) is a recent thing of the last months… so it seems basic business attitudes haven’t changed that much, just the tactics. We have been asked to judge them by their actions, so…

It’s funny how easy it is to spot fake posts of different types. They’re written to sound organic and natural, but somehow the tone and content just misses. Maybe because they overextend that slightly, along the lines of “So I wanted to re-try something familiar and ordered some Adagio floral blend…” Given how my company conducts marketing all of this is familiar ground. We host a “vendor neutral” user group series that essentially just produces standard marketing content, covering both events and material.

Adagio is buying Steepster related to business interests, not altruism; surely that’s not even in question. It’s hard to imagine that they really will be able to leave it alone and also get some marketing mileage out of it. It’s conceivable that both could work together, under the right approach, but it won’t be like that, one of the two themes will fail. Or just as likely both will.

I was a frequent reader at TC and learned a lot there but watched with dismay when all that stuff went down.