No Neutrality on Steepster? Positive bias?
Does anyone else feel like it can be difficult to leave a negative review of a tea on Steepster because the vendors prowl about the site and sometimes leave defensive or apologetic comments that make you feel guilty when you post a less than positive review of one of their teas?
It sort of breaks the legitimacy of this site and its purpose, if you ask me. I often consider changing my screenname and image so that it doesn’t actually make it apparent who I am because I worry about negative relationships developing with dealers due to honest reviews. Yeah, I’m sure we can all agree that a mature and professional vendor will not discourage honest feedback or make anyone feel bothered for leaving it, but I have actually had the experience on eBay where I was blocked by a seller I was a repeat customer of several times because on my latest transaction with them I left, get this, POSITIVE feedback, but also mentioned in the feedback that the shipping took a very long time and was way past the estimated date. I now have to have a friend order from that vendor when I want more Gongfu tea cups to match the ones I have. I know that was on eBay, but my point is having had that experience, I feel like something similar could happen here and a vendor could develop a negative impression of me for trying to be honest about the pros and cons of their products.
I often wonder how tea bloggers manage neutrality since I’ve never really seen any negative reviews on tea blogs. How do you feel comfortable leaving a less than great review when you were given free tea samples? I know if it was me, I’d feel uncomfortable doing that, or sort of obligated to candy-coat things even when they were sub-par, lest that vendor develop a dislike for me or never send me free samples again.
Many times I feel that here on Steepster I can only use the upper 50% of the rating scale, and that if I dip into the lower ranks and make some orange or red pop up on a tea’s page, it’s just going to anger someone. It doesn’t always stop me, but there are definitely times where I’ll just leave the review and no numerical score when I thought a tea was poor.
Anyone else have thoughts on this they’d like to share? Anyone else feel like it’s hard to leave criticism on this site? I wonder if there is a way to alleviate this other than just taking on an anonymous moniker.
I occasionally receive tea for review, with the caveat that I review honestly. If I don’t like it, I say so. I also try to be realistic and acknowledge that while it may not be for me, it may be great for someone else. There have been vendors who elected not to give me tea when I made it clear that my feedback would be honest rather than positive and that really makes me think twice about ordering from them but in general the impression I get from vendors commenting on Steepster posts is the sense that they just want to make it right. For example, I see Butiki, Teavivre, Teajo, Whispering Pines and 52Teas as active Steepster vendors and members. If they comment on reviews of their teas and suggest ways to make it better I think that is just a way to keep the communication open. If a vendor were trying to have bad reviews removed or was selective about who could do reviews based on only positive feedback I’d feel a lot differently.
As for the bottom half of the scale – I feel your pain. I think that in general Steepster is full of positive reviews for whatever reason. I use the lower half, but by my rating scale (which I include on my profile) the bottom 50% is for the undrinkable. I don’t drink bad tea. Yuck. Also if something is terrible right off the bat I tend to think of user error before tea problem so I try to keep it with no rating until I’ve tried again.
I’ve left a “negative” review for a tea on this site and actually had the vendor like the review. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If a business is going to be petty or nasty because I leave an honest review then I probably don’t want to continue doing business with them anyway. Too many other tea vendors out there who can replace sub-par ones.
I have definitely had an experience or two where it was a “user error” moment and I seem to have brewed the tea incorrectly, so I have withheld a rating or removed a rating until I’ve had the opportunity to give a tea another chance, if at all.
I suppose I see the benefit of vendors keeping open communication. Surely there is a benefit when one of the vendors suggests brewing the tea differently and then the customer has the chance to try it and maybe that fixes their problem with it. On the other hand, it does really feel like it can be hard to leave negative feedback in the first place. I wonder how accurate the reviews on a website like Amazon would be if the creators or vendors of the products there were likely to pop in and counter your opinions.
Steepster is a unique outlet, but it seems to have some facets of it that kind of draw its own nature into question. What is the purpose of a rating scale if people feel discouraged from identifying what they think is bad tea and rating it accordingly? What is the purpose of reviewing teas from vendors who just want to hear praise? It all gets a little tricky at times.
For me, I don’t wish to particularly promote or drop a bombshell on any tea or its company. This website is more of a logbook for myself to keep track of what teas I had, what they were like, and whether I enjoyed them. I think it should go without saying that for any negative review you see, there could be many other people who loved the tea. I do tend to see the negative reviews come in clusters, as if it’s safety in numbers. It can be hard being the lone dissenter.
It’s just all very weird to me at times. Internet communications is at once impersonal and yet sometimes too personal.
When I forst joined Steepster, I left overwhelmingly positive reviews in part because of my inexperience with teas and in part out of fear of stepping on toes. As I have become more confident in my tastes and the validity of my opinions, I have become less worried. I try not to be rude because I don’t like to live that way, but I will definitely say if a tea or a company is disappointing.
I don’t think your concerns are unique to you BUT I do think it is sort of a personal problem. Steepster works for each user differently so if you are worried about being the long dissenter or you feel uncomfortable leaving a negative review (not that you do, but these are valid examples) than just don’t. We can change ourselves, but we can’t change others. To try to keep my opinions truly mine rather than influenced by the general ratings I try not to look at the numerical rating or any reviews before writing my first tasting note. Then when I’ve communicated all my thoughts I will look around and see if I line up with others. Often, I don’t. Sometimes I chalk it up to group-think and sometimes it is because I needed to bounce my ideas off others to really get a grasp of what I experienced.
It has been mentioned recently in another thread that Steepster has favourite vendors that sit in the limelight at any given time and I think that is definitely true. It might be nice if it were otherwise, but all Steepster does is reflect what the bulk of the users are drinking and what they think of it so it makes sense that a company can really take off or fall to the wayside based on our reviews. I think that can sometimes be detrimental, but also has boosted publicity for companies that wouldn’t be around otherwise. I also think that results in more vendors interacting via reviews as they know bad publicity can hurt them. I think it extends the concern for customer satisfaction in a way that is really positive but can still lead to the concerns you’ve outlined above.
I guess all this is to say that on the whole I think it’s great, but it can still be overwhelming to know that my review of a tea can have an impact on a company’s success. This is my personal logbook, but I try to be aware that what I say may influence another to shop (or not). If I truly wanted to remain impartial, I’d keep my reviews offline but I think the greater exchange of information is worth the possibility of upset. Though I still try to be nice. :)
It is certainly what I’d consider a personal problem to feel guilty for it and need to get past that hurdle, but I think seeing what other people’s feelings and experiences about this are is definitely helpful in getting over the hurdle.
I didn’t mean to imply that I only use steepster to log my own thoughts with no desire for others to see them. I do like sharing my thoughts because I think it helps other users discover teas they may love or know where to put their money next. Buying teas online can be a tricky game because even for samples you have to often pay a decent penny due to shipping costs.
I have left negative or less than shining reviews for plenty of teas, when I first started I would feel pangs of guilt, but then remembered taste is subjective and as long as I am describing the flavor and aroma notes correctly then it really doesn’t matter how much I like or dislike the tea because people will form their own opinions.
Usually the only kind of interaction I have had with a company when I leave a negative review is trying to make it right, either offering to send me different teas to try, or wanting to know my brewing parameters so they can see if the fault is on my end or possibly on theirs. Usually they are very apologetic, at which point I tell them not to be, because taste is magically subjective.
In all honesty I am not a fan of the whole sliding scale with Steepster’s rating, I am much more of a fan of rating individual elements like aroma, taste, cost, and then having the score that shows be the total between the three.
If you want a more ‘hands off’ reviewing site, try Rate-Tea, it has a very silent community and I have never had a tea vendor talk to me there.
I think it is great that tea companies are so talkative on Steepster, I think it being so open is one of the things that keeps some of the nasty name calling and attacks like you see on Amazon (seriously, leaving a bad review on that site is a sure fire way for some one to get very angry at you, and not just other fans of what it is you are reviewing, writers and people who manufacture the products have to have their two cents as well) if a tea company guilt trips someone for leaving a bad feedback, you can be pretty sure everyone will know and probably not buy from them.
Also, if you want it to be a personal logbook just for yourself, who not try skipping on the numerical rating? I know plenty of people just don’t use the rating system, I have often thought of doing it myself.
The rating system is helpful for me personally to recall how much I liked a tea. Sometimes reading the notes doesn’t jog my memory with all the teas I try, so seeing that I gave something a 93 makes me think “oh man I really liked that, it’s worth another go”.
I want to share my thoughts with other users to help people find teas they will love and help them be aware when a tea may be a risky investment. I like the community aspect here, but I do feel there is sort of a hurdle to get over to feel really comfortable posting your thoughts. I haven’t seen any negative reactions from vendors responding to reviews, but it still doesn’t feel comfortable being totally honest with the rating system, even if it’s all based on personal tastes, being that one glaring red mark kind of makes you feel like a jerk. It feels impolite and makes me want to remove the rating, but then doing that makes me feel like the rating scale is basically impotent, so yeah, cognitive dissonance ensues.
I understand that, though I have gotten to the point where I just ignore the ratings and read people’s descriptions ‘tastes like mineral and smoke and you think that is gross? Sign me up for yummies!’ is the type reaction I have had a lot when reading things, it makes me giggle.
Maybe suggest in the suggestion section a color change? Or just remember that red means camp and mauve means danger, so technically none of the teas are bad.
Yea, lots of people have that same issue and therefore don’t rate the teas. For us (Steepster) the rating is just a quicker way to understand someone’s perspective on a tea without reading their entire note. Sure, it’s an oversimplifcation, but in the world of the Web you’re lucky to get about 1 sec of a person’s attention, so the rating sometimes is all you’re able to communicate, and we favor communicating something rather than nothing.
You seem to be a very thoughtful and considerate person, so I wouldn’t worry about your ratings. So long as your tasting notes are constructive and properly explain your reasoning, I think that’s all anyone can ask for.
Thanks for responding, Jason. I do tend to mention at times when I rate a tea poorly something like “Hey, if that’s your thing, by all means try this tea,” so that hopefully no one gets the impression I’m just flat out demonizing it. I guess it kind of goes without saying really that a bad review doesn’t equal bad tea. It’s just good to see some other members say they have experienced a similar discomfort and how they were able to grow out of that. I think it is just something that for some can take a little getting used to. It’s hard to convey tone in text and I suppose that while I try to write reviews with a little wit and voice, I also try my best to stay polite to the people who liked what I didn’t like and the companies who sell those teas.
I think you bring up an interesting issue, one we’ve tried our best to accomodate with the site features and interactions (and will continue to do so in the future).
First off, if any company is harrassing you for leaving honest comments, you should let me know and we can address the issue with them directly. But in terms of feeling guilty about a negative review, we hope we can create an environment of open and honest communication. Whenever you leave negative comments, there’s always going to be some possibility of the company reacting to it, unless you put it in a place where no one has a chance of seeing it. But Steepster is at a point where many companies can see it, so that situation will remain and will be true of any platform that allows for honest user opinions.
So, assuming we continue to allow negative comments on Steepster (which we obviously will) the other option would be to limit or ban companies from responding to user reviews. There’s a practical problem with that in that anybody from a company can make an account and respond, even if not from an “official” company account. So that can’t be fixed, only monitored.
But not counting that practical problem, like I mentioned we favor open communication to shutting off communication. We want to create a platform where drinkers and companies can connect in a meaningful way to better the tea experience, and we’ll continue working to make an environment that fosters that interaction. Not everyone will do it correctly, or even well, but we want to give them the opportunity to succeed.
In the grand scheme of things we’re still young and growing, so while we certainly don’t have everything we’d want, we hope we’re setup to get there eventually. So with all that said, hopefully you’ll still feel like you can leave honest, neutral, constructive feedback on the teas you’re drinking.
Let me know if you have any questions!
It is certainly not easy to conclude on how to best manage the rating system, especially when ratings from one user to the next are arbitrary. The only real indicator that helps people base their rating are the little faces that are there to show the reaction, but whereas I might rate a really terrible tea in the 10s and something in the 20s is something I’d drink if offered but never purchase… someone else might rank everything below 50 as something they’d never try again.
It’s a tricky thing. I do like Amanda’s suggestion that perhaps somewhere down the road there could be a rating system that is a bit more multi-faceted. Some review sites do break review scores down into separate categories. I also think that some verbal cues could help universalize the rating scores a bit more than just the little face symbols. If there were descriptions ranging from “Terrible” to “so-so” to “Incredible” it might help the ratings be a little more universal and fewer users would have to put a post on their profile to explain what the scores mean to them.
I think it makes sense to allow vendors to communicate on here though. They shouldn’t be banned simply because it feels harder to be critical. I agree that as long as they aren’t purposely trying to make people feel bad for leaving negative feedback, it really is an individual problem to feel uncomfortable leaving negative feedback. I was interested to see how others felt because I think that is helpful to me, and I do think that some discussion of improvements to features like the rating scale could be helpful too.
Interesting issue, Lion Repshire. I have reviewed thousands of perfumes (at sherapop’s sillage: http://sherapop.blogspot.com/) and many of my reviews are negative. That is because the perfume industry is in serious decline, what with massive corporate conglomeratization and the cost-cutting removal of natural substances rationalized by appeal to strict new guidelines from the IFRA (an organization whose members are the executives of perfume companies and who therefore are obviously profit driven…). The perfumes of the twenty-first century are, on the whole, nothing like the perfumes of the twentieth century.
But I actually wrote tea reviews long before before I began writing perfume reviews (which was in 2009), and long before learning about the existence of Steepster. A few of my tea reviews (under a different moniker) are still online, though I wrote them way back in 2000! I posted several early reviews at a vendor’s site (not going to name any names, but they still exist), and to my shock discovered that they only published the positive reviews! Needless to say, I became angry and stopped reviewing teas altogether, as I am not a shill and was offended that they would do such a thing.
Many years later, I still only rarely post reviews at vendors’ sites, but I suspect that the explanation for the slant at tea blogs may be the same as at most “upbeat” perfume blogs: seasoned tea drinkers tend only to drink teas which they like or are likely to like. They don’t buy Lipton, so they are not going to be reviewing it.
I am starting a new tea blog, sherapop’s tea leaves (in part because of frustration with the chronic dysfunctionality of this site…), and I anticipate that it is going to be filled with glowing reviews, because once I have rejected a tea as substandard—or simply not to my liking—I tend not to return to it again. I might try to finish it off (as iced tea or whatever), but I certainly do not restock. It seems more worthwhile to share my love of teas which I highly recommend and exhort others to try. Probably I’ll focus on teas which I have already tried five or more times and intend to restock.
There are thousands of teas out there. Once we reach a certain stratum, and achieve a degree of self-knowledge about our idiosyncratic tastes, it becomes a waste of time to try teas which we are probably not going to enjoy. If I know (as I do now), that I really prefer unflavored green teas to blends, then after a while, I’ll just stop buying them.
A good example is the Teavana chunk o’ food blend stuff. I bought the huge holiday set last year (on sale), and found that I do not like that sort of “tea”. I have learned my lesson, so it’s time to move on!
These are all matters of taste, but sometimes people forget this important fact. It is important to tell the truth not because you are saying anything objective, but precisely because matters of taste are highly subjective, and there are literally thousands of others like you, who will not like what you do not like and may well enjoy what you enjoy.
A chacun son goût!
It is important to give honest reviews, even when you hate the tea, because we are serving each other by sharing our knowledge of tea. I don’t recall any evidence of vendors responding negatively WRT the reviewer, only words to the effect that they’re sorry you didn’t like the tea.
In the past I have mentioned the danger of group-think on Steepster, and by posting divergent opinions you are helping to avoid that issue.
Having said that, I will often simply not leave a score when I feel that my poor score reflects on my taste more than the tea. It bothers me to read a review that says “I hate all xxxx teas, and this was no exception” and then rate the tea a 30. For example, I’ve never given a score to a lapsam souchong, because someone must like them. However, I did write a review that mentioned co-workers looking for the source of the fire so a neophyte will realize how really strong the smoke flavor can be.
A second issue that is rather hard to address is thescale we use. Early in my engineering career, I was “counselled” by management after scoring a contractor a 30 out of 100 as input to a contract proposal. It was suggested that in college, a 65 was a failing grade, and that a similar scale might be appropriate here as well. As such, a tea has to be undrinkable for me to rate lower than 60. Others, however, will have verbiage suggesting that they enjoyed a tea, then rate it a 60. I understand the argument for using the entire scale, since it permits more granularity, but the wide variety of scoring bases does make the numerical ratings suspect.
Really good points about the rating system, Dr Jim. When I was a graduate student at an unnameable Ivy League university, I often gave undergraduates B’s on their less than brilliant papers. (Believe me, there are plenty of non-genius students at such places…)
Turns out that they were used to receiving A’s on everything, so they felt that a B was equivalent to an F! I persisted in making distinctions between excellent, good, and mediocre papers, though some of the students became angry with me.
Tant pis!
It’s a tricky issue for sure. No matter what system you use there will be inherent issues because humans are biased. For example, ratings naturally skew to the 60-80 percent range. I’m sure that’s caused in part by the association we all have with school grading systems.
We’ve talked about other systems that would attempt to downplay/limit natural biases and we may change ours in the future, but right now it’s still intended to be very flexible. Since we know all of this is subjective, we always encourage people to follow a user to get to know their tastes better. But for people not willing to do that, we think it’s best to have some score/rating rather than give no information. In the long run this would also be less of an issue, because the law of large numbers would work in our favor and, with enough ratings/reviews, some fairly general consensus on a tea should emerge. Until then, we work with what we have :)
I just want to say that I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this thread so far and it would be really interesting to see more perspectives from other Steepsterites. I think the varied ways we use this site are fantastic.
I’ve written “negative” reviews before, and I think that since everyone has different taste and preferences, vendors don’t take it as an insult. It also helps that when I find a profile of someone who seems to have similar taste to mine, I can see what teas they DIDN’T like and get an idea of whether or not I should buy it. I also had the company reach out to me and offer me a sample of a similar tea with a different flavor to make up for my dissatisfaction and also to hopefully help me find something I DO like. Negative reviews often give vendors an opportunity to show what their customer service is like. In my negative reviews I’ve had really bad customer service as well as top of the line customer service and it shapes where I buy from and what I recommend to people in the future.
Jackie T wrote: “It also helps that when I find a profile of someone who seems to have similar taste to mine, I can see what teas they DIDN’T like and get an idea of whether or not I should buy it.”
Exactly: in the perfume community, we refer to such people as “scent twins”. Here they would be “tea twins”! No point in following the advice of someone who hates one’s favorite teas, after all!
I have no problem leaving negative reviews if I don’t like something. I do like to acknowledge the possibility that it’s user error or old leaf, particularly when I see my opinion differs greatly from everyone else’s or from my memories. And if it wasn’t too awful, I’ll consider trying it again, brewed differently.
I do feel a bit more comfortable being really blunt in my ratings of teas from large companies. I’m bit more sensitive to how my comments might be received by a company that’s really an individual hand blending their teas. I know that for me, creative work and feeding people is a labour of love that I remain emotionally connected to, and I want to be honest but I also don’t want to harm anyone with my words.
I find the numerical ratings to be of limited value, because everyone seems to have a different rubric for them. They definitely appear to be influenced by grading systems in schools. In setting up my own, mostly as a reminder to myself, I took into consideration the faces positioned above the slider, and so I make an effort to use the whole scale. I do still find the school grading systems influence my feelings about the numbers – part of me wants to think of 50 as being average, but another part of me associates 50 with failure.
Knowing that for me, undrinkable is a 15 or less, and for many others undrinkable is anything under 50, I don’t the numbers too seriously.
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