Would this be OK with you? False Advertising??

I left this message on their Facebook wall. Most likely it will get deleted, but hopefully a few people will see it first:

“Hi, a friend of mine ordered 3 ounces of white tea and received 2 ounces instead. When she emailed you of her concern this was your response: "Thank you for your message. We apologize for the delay in response. Although, the weight isn’t exact, our signature blends containing white tea are typically slightly lighter because white tea leaves are lighter and more airy. We hope this clears up any misunderstanding.”

I’m not sure if its that you don’t understand the difference between volume and weight, but this is not ok. Ounces are a measurement of WEIGHT not volume when using solids. You’re selling a product that is priced by the ounce and literally gave her 2/3s of what she paid for. I was planning on purchasing a set of fandom blends soon, but not if I will be getting less than the weight that is listed. This issue needs to be taken care off, because you are deceiving your customers."

Response: "We appreciate you reaching out, Tyler. We understand your frustrations. We have since reached out to your friend and have escalated the issue to ensure proper resolution. We have forwarded your comments to our development team, who will investigate adding more realistic weights to the website. We suspect “3 oz.” was intended as a temporary place holder, describing the size of the pouch we use to package the blends and not its contents."

Thank you Brent! That is really helpful! I see that the listing says “3 oz pouch” and the bags are all the same size. So they may be claiming your part 3. However, I would not, in good conscience, ever recommend my friends purchase tea from a company who does that.

Yeah, I kind of figured they’d stated it like that, “3 oz pouch”. That makes it technically OK, but, as I said, pretty slippery.

The thing is, they buy ALL of their tea by weight. How do I know this? Because everyone does. So, for them to turn around and sell by volume – well, that means that they’re going to make out pretty well on teas that take up space, which can be some of the most expensive teas (by weight).

I looked at the site and see that these blends are blended by percentages. So, this begs the question … percentage of what?

It’s too bad to see practices like this coming from Adagio. As big brands go, they are actually one of the better ones, in terms of product quality. I’ve seen several misleading claims, though, from this company. Very unfortunate since, their product and value are generally quite good, so they really don’t need to resort to such tactics.

Cheers.

Per Ilya, percentage of volume of the tea tin – if you order a 50/50 blend, it’s half a tin of X, half a tin of Y. My guess is that they have scoops and it’s a basic “so many scoops per container” (10 maybe?) that they can easily break down by percentage.

I hope they change this practice too – I was really disappointed to find out it was going on. I posted to the feedback forum about it, and I did gently ping them on twitter about it. I personally don’t mind that the signature blends are volume based – I suspect that is a core part of what makes it possible for Adagio to offer the custom blending service — but they really need to be upfront about it, and it wouldn’t be hard to do. A note in the FAQ, a line or two in the blending set up, and a change in the item descriptions would do. “Custom teas are blended and sold by volume.”

I completely agree Anna! I made a tropical earl grey that is out of this world yummy! I will be so sad if I feel I can’t do business with them anymore!!! (in fact I’m drinking some right now :-) ) And I love that I can blend my own whites and greens! And I really wouldn’t mind if they had to sell them by volume rather than weight. I just want to be told that’s what I’m buying. You’ve said exactly what my husband said… all they need to do is make it clear they are sold by volume not weight!

Thanks for speaking up. Like you said, it’s not about the ounce of tea. I hope they make it right since, as big brands go, I kind of like Adagio.

Cheers.

i used to laugh at kitenna when she did this…and then i found myself doing it. heh

Makes sense to me! I should start checking…

The solution to that problem is that they need to label the actual correct weight instead of just filling bags. They claim to be legitimate businesses so they need to put in the effort to make sure the customers know what they are getting and how much they are paying for.

Sorry, that’s not a fact at all. Maybe you use less leaf when you measure by teaspoon, but when brewing gongfu (traditional chinese) I use 5g of tea for a 6oz teapot, regardless of what type of tea it is. So do many other people. You may be able to get away with using less white tea for a variety of reasons, but it’s absolutely not a “fact” that you are “supposed” to use less white tea per cup. To get the full flavor of your tea you really should be using the same weight to volume ratio as you do any other tea.

White tea is often sold in smaller portions, but this is because it is more expensive per gram. A tea retailer can sell all their teas for approximately the same price if they sell white tea in smaller portions, and people don’t think of it as more expensive that way. It’s a trick of retail and marketing, not a result of not needing as much.

If you buy a pound of chamomile from Harney, I guarantee you it will be a pound. Harney sells by weight, not by volume (as should all tea sellers). When they sell chamomile in a tin, they have it listed as 1.5 oz chamomile, coming in the same black tin that they sell 4oz of black tea in. Note that they don’t say 4oz of chamomile, they actually tell you that it is only 1.5oz. Same with their white tea: a “4oz” tea tin full of white tea is only 1.5-2 oz, and they tell you so.

What Adagio is doing has no excuse.

Yeah, but tea brewing qualities aren’t the issue here. The issue is a confusing market practice that is leaving people feeling cheated, and needs to be changed so that customers know what they are purchasing. And it’s such an easy fix – either sell by actual weight (what we thought they were doing) or say upfront they are selling by volume (so we don’t feel like we’re being ripped of when our tea weights vary).

Sounds like Harney and Sons is doing it right.

Dinosara: thanks for your reply and hearty dissent. Here is my argument.

I have two Harney & Sons HT tins here before me containing twenty sachets: English Breakfast (which weighs 40 grams or 1.4 ounces), and Winter White Earl Grey (which weighs 26 grams or .9 ounces).

Each tin contains twenty sachets = twenty servings. This implies, does it not, that it takes a lower weight to make a cup of white tea than it does to make a cup of black tea? Moreover, the white tea sachets are multiply infusable, which the black tea sachets are not.

What say you, Dinosara, to my rebuttal? ;-)

Dinosara is right here. I think one of the things you are noticing here is that (I am guessing) you are looking at silver needle. (Understand there are big differences between silver needle and white peony, but you’ve conflated them as “white tea”, so I don’t know specifically what you’re thinking of.)

Since silver needle usually survives quite a few steepings (white peony is much less durable), when it is prepared Western style, it CAN be made with less tea. This doesn’t mean that it necessarily should be, but it can be. Silver needle is a relatively expensive tea, so many sellers hold back as much as possible.

This is likely why Adagio took this approach with Melanie, and is likely why Harney puts less in their sachets – because you can simply increase steeping time to make up the difference. They get to charge you for a white tea product, but hold back a bit of tea.

Sidenote: This is why buying per container is ALWAYS problematic (per bag, per sachet, etc.) And, indirectly, it is why you should ignore the steeping directions sent by the tea seller. But, that’s another subject.

But, what Dinosara says is completely true (and Anna as well). And, it underscores why it is always a good idea to buy by weight (not by container).

Cheers.

I fully authorize Brent’s reply as my rebuttle to your rebuttle. :) I agree with everything he has said.

So you guys are saying that a twenty sachet tin of Mutan (which is the white) does not produce the same amount of tea as a twenty sachet tin of English Breakfast?

I’m sorry to be obtuse, but are you saying that the white tea sachets in this case produce an inferior (weaker) cup?

Aren’t they designed to produce a single perfectly measured serving of tea? Isn’t that the whole point of a sachet or tea bag? Or is your point that the vast majority of consumers really don’t know how to make tea?

I don’t know what exactly you’re looking at, so can’t really say what it makes.

I will say (and we’re way off topic here), that very broadly, it takes about the same quantity of tea leaves, by weight, to make about the same quality and quantity of tea, regardless of tea type. Lighter/bulkier teas take more, by volume, than denser teas, as a rule. (There are all kinds of exceptions to this, but the blanket category of white teas isn’t one of them.)

You can use less of a tea and steep longer. This is the main difference between Western and gongfu style. If the tea is durable (survives many steepings), such as silver needle, you can use less tea and steep for longer. But, yes, by doing so, you will normally sacrifice quality. You will lose much of the subtlety of the tea. I find this particularly true with less oxidized teas.

Again, I don’t know what tea you are referring to, so I can’t speak to it exactly. Each tea behaves a little differently, but it is not a fact that white tea requires less tea. That’s the essential point. It CAN take less, but that’s about all one could say.

As to the purpose of a satchet … unfortunately, the real purpose of the satchet isn’t that. It is more about selling convenience and about tea sellers having more control over quantities and ratios. When you use a satchet (or teabag), the person who made it is the one who decides a great deal about how your tea is made. The method ensures waste at one end of the spectrum, and weak tea at the other. You only win if you want to make exactly the quantity that the satchet is measured for. I know that sounds terribly cynical, but it’s true. It’s not that they’re inherently bad, just that they don’t have anything resembling a guarantee of perfection. The only benefit is convenience.

As to consumers knowing how to make tea … well, some do and some don’t. I think anyone who can make a cup of tea that they enjoy – that person knows how to make tea. All I was talking about were the characteristics of tea.

Cheers.

Yes, basically, tea sellers don’t always give the best instructions when it comes to making a cup of tea. I love Harney, but I NEVER follow their steeping instructions. It just makes a tea that is not to my tastes.

The thing is, as much as we talk about a right and wrong way to measure or brew your tea, it really matters most to you if it’s making a cup of tea that you enjoy. If brewing white tea with less weight per cup works for you, it’s not wrong, but it’s not “right” either, not for everyone.

I think companies put less weight of white tea in their tea bags/sachets because they can get away with it. White tea is one of those things that’s hard to measure and brew western style anyway, so it’s always a compromise.

The only thing we’re saying is that just because a major tea retailer tells you to use less weight of tea per cup, it doesn’t make them right about how to brew that tea. Your original response was that it was a “fact” that you don’t need to use as much white tea per cup. Our response is just that is not really the case. You can do it that way, and if it works for you more power to you, but that’s not the best or only way to brew white tea.